Shaping a strong culture – an interview with Laura Shipperlee
Laura Shipperlee is the former Chief People Officer for leading online car marketplace Carwow. Over the last twenty years or so she has forged an impressive career as an HR leader within both entrepreneurial technology companies as well as larger businesses.
In this interview we discuss the impact that culture can have on a company, and how you can practically shape a culture to meet the needs of a business.
How do you create an authentic culture?
Culture flows from the top of an organization. As a leader, you can only create an authentic culture if you’re willing to live those values yourself. In order to create an authentic culture, you need to have a look at yourself and other leaders and identify which values and behaviours they are following. For me, self-reflection is critical for any leader who wants to determine what the culture should be.
If you do have a discrepancy between the culture leadership would like and the behaviours they exhibit, how do you change that?
There has to be a very open relationship between the leadership team and the People team. It can be difficult for a leopard to change its spots, but I think some practical things are possible. I think awareness is key – the leadership team needs to be comfortable and vulnerable enough to let the People team( and others!) point out when you are not true to be your words. That is the first step to making that change.
How much toxicity do you think should be tolerated with high performers?
I strongly believe that it’s possible to have a very high-performing culture and team without having toxic employees. There is no room for toxic behaviours in a company – there are plenty of people out there who can be fantastic at performing in their roles and treat people as they would want to be treated themselves. Sometimes it’s tempting for toxic behaviours can get overlooked if the person is perceived to be critical to the success of the business, e.g. a great salesperson, but that doesn’t land with me.
Toxic behaviour must be addressed and tackled. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to sack that person. First of all, it’s important to point out those faults to the individual, because they might be unaware of the issue and hopefully be open to change. But if you do that and they don’t change, and everyone else finds them difficult to work with, then a company is bigger than one individual and they should probably leave.
How do you balance having a coherent culture and being diverse?
I think it is possible to have a consistent culture and be diverse. Culture isn’t about everyone looking like me and wanting to spend their spare time in the same way I want to spend my time, which is sometimes what people mistakenly think it is. It is about how how decisions are made, and what behaviours are rewarded.
People from different backgrounds, different upbringings, different cultures and ethnicities can still be part of a fantastic culture and share the same values, want to achieve the same things, and exhibit positive behaviours. For me, it is very clear that you can have a very diverse group of people and still have an authentic culture.
When you are a small business, it is easier to have a shared sense of purpose and identity. It becomes more difficult perhaps as a company becomes bigger. How do you maintain the sense of purpose, culture, and vision as a company grows and the task becomes harder?
You have to work at it! You can’t just assume things will always continue the way it has when you were a start-up. Perhaps it gets harder to make decisions and the lines of accountability line get more blurred as a company scales. Processes have to change as the companies grow and evolve, but that doesn’t mean the culture has to change. You have to keep stay close to the culture – particularly the CEO and senior leaders need to be aware if things are slipping. If the behaviours that were rewarded before are being overlooked now and other behaviours are creeping in, then this has to be worked at by everyone. Often people think the culture should be driven by the People team, but it’s really the responsibility of the whole company.
Your values might need some tweaking as the company evolves, so it’s important to check in on them as you grow, and ask yourself if you’re really living up to them.
When I was at Carwow, one of the first things we did was to readdress the values. They have been in place for about nearly 10 years and the founder asked me to check if they were still as relevant as they were today. We spent a lot of time with the founders, leadership team and a cross section of the team (both longer termers and new joiners) to evaluate whether they were as applicable now as they were at the start. We took a couple of them out, and did some clarifying of some of the meanings, but ultimately, the majority stayed the same. This was a really important exercise for the next stage of growth and no doubt they’ll need to evolve again in time.
At interview stage – how do you assess the cultural fit of a potential hire?
I think you definitely have to ask probing questions. Gut feeling alone is dangerous because that is a way you can end up recruiting someone who looks, sounds and acts like everyone else in your team. So just trusting your gut is not enough. You have to ask key questions – the same questions to multiple people to allow for consistency. If there are values that are very important, make sure to check them in the interviews as the first step to make sure that someone is aligned with your values and culture.
I’m not a fan of ‘culture fit’ interviews being carried out by junior members of the team, or individuals from a cross section of departments at a company, which I’ve seen done before. Questions around values which for me should form the biggest part of any ‘cultural fit’ interviews should be weaved into each interview the candidate has with the company, not with just one individual.
How do you approach changing a culture? Let’s say, you got into a new role and discovered the culture is not optimal within your business. How do you change the culture from the inside?
It’s often a good idea to do an audit and see things with fresh eyes. The first thing to do is to speak to people to understand what is working and what is not working. You can share those findings with the leadership team and CEO and point out the flaws and the opportunities to improve.
If the CEO is aligned with the strategy and wants to make a change, then you can help them work on the details. The key is to make sure the CEO is committed to leading by example or change just won’t happen.
What if the problem is the CEO themselves?
Fortunately, I have never encountered that problem with all the CEOs that I have worked with. The CEOs’ behaviours do determine the way things get done in an organisation, so it is definitely difficult to change if the CEO is unwilling. I did work for one company where meetings always started late, ultimately because the CEO’s diary was always overbooked, so their meetings overran, which filtered through to the rest of the organisation and was really difficult to change. You can try, you can create awareness and explain what needs to happen, but you can’t do it alone.
What are some impacts that a strong culture has on the performance of a business?
The positive impact of a strong culture is huge! If you have a culture where people who are arguing with each other and not wanting to work together, and have their own agendas, teamwork isn’t going to happen, you’re are not going to reach the company’s goals or become successful as a company or reach the companies goals.
Of course the opposite it true of a strong culture. It’s not rocket science, and for me is just common sense to put energy into creating a culture where success is rewarded and employees feel encouraged to go above and beyond the responsibilities of their roles. Where employees feel valued and enjoy working with one another.
How do you encourage socializing in a way that is diverse, given that the traditional “beers after work culture” may be alienating for some employees?
It is a good question. There has been a lot of movement in recent years to become a lot more aware of the fact that people might want to socialize differently. But I’m sure that, particularly in certain sectors, not much has changed. Again, awareness is key. Probably about 15 or 20 years ago, all our socializing was in a pub, and we weren’t really talking about the importance of diversity and encouraging people from different backgrounds with different approaches to work and socialising the way we are now. I think things have changed a lot for the better, and everywhere that I have worked in recent years there’s been a committed effort to host a range of events that are appealing for all.
People might sometimes talk about diversity and inclusion because they think they should, not because they truly believe in it. Of course this isn’t enough,, but I think even talking about it is a start and opens people’s eyes, and it can be a massive help if you have advocates in the company who are encourage people to consider dfffrent ways to manage team bonding/ socialising. Of course not every company is big enough to have a specialized diversity and inclusion person, but once a company is, that role can be key to making sure there is a variety of activities available and that everyone is thought of at social events.
Laura Shipperlee is an accomplished people leader and executive coach. To get in touch with her, please email laura.shipperlee@lsc-coaching.com
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